Problems we are having with #Signal:
* It is and will remain centralized (clear strategy of *not* federating servers)
* It requires strong identifiers/selectors (phone#) to use
* Author disallows distribution by anyone but Google, although free/libre
* It keeps pushing away verification of fingerprint in interface
* It relies on Google+Amazon infrastructure
* Its funding is shady (OTF = Radio Free Asia = USG)

= clearly unethical choices, unjustifiable by accessibility or technological reasons.

@jz

The Better options all require advanced skills to use. Non-technical users deserve privacy too.

* Non-federation means users not giving up at server selector dialog and no one-off hostile servers.

* Phone numbers are mediocre IDs but hard for users to screw up.

* Google prevents third parties (e.g. abusive ex, corrupt local sherrif) from tampering with the apk.

* Funding is funding; the USG funds lots of stuff, some of it good.

Signal is imperfect but the perfect is the enemy of the good.

@suetanvil I wish we stop attempting at justifying the ethically/morally unacceptable by "usability". this notion considers that "users" (not people eh!) are all idiots, incapable of doing what the person mentioning it is capable of.

It is by infantilizing people that they end up being subjugated, under control.

My own field experience of sec is that when u make people understand (activists, journalists doing real journalism, sources, etc.) they are capable of making efforts (tails, GPG, etc.)

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@jz

Have you succeeded in training anyone without a secondary-school degree in the use of GPG? Because withholding quality education from the poor is one of the tactics in wide use against the US poor.

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@suetanvil @jz Some of the grubby, uneducated poors have figured GPG out on our ownsie without being trained. Amazing, I know! Some of us would like a little less condescension in tech dev, more power settings and enhancement of agency, rather than appeals to an infantilized state. Thanks for your concern, though...

@Shufei

I apologize if I came across as condescending. That was not my intent and I realize that a lot of poor and/or undereducated people have been able to teach themselves tech skills.

However, learning tech skills is hard. It requires significant time investment at the very least. I'm a techie in part because I'm obsessed with computers and because I had the time to self-study.

This stuff is *hard* and privacy should not be restricted only to people who can do it.

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