Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression 

Human rights mean a lot to me. I joined the Fediverse to make the world a nicer place. My efforts are pathetically small, but hopefully make at least a tiny difference.

I used to recommend Lemmy very strongly, thought the people who develop it were nice folks interested in making the world better too.

However, recent discussions with the developers has changed my mind completely.

I am very suspicious about their motivations now.

1/6

Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression 

Lemmy's developers say "we are strictly against all forms of oppression (including genocide), and dont allow anything that promotes or supports oppression" and "We definitely are very staunchly against bigotry or persecution of minorities, and are strict about banning that".

This is difficult to fully reconcile with what actually happens on the developers' own instance, and those they feature.

2/6

Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression 

The problem here isn't Lemmy's politics, but their attitude to threads about human rights violations.

On the face of it, the developers' main Lemmy instance has lots of uncontroversial general interest threads, but when you start digging on controversial topics a worrying pattern emerges.

The worrying posts are very reminiscent of the way certain churches have handled priest abuse claims: denial.

3/6

Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression 

There's threads denyng the oppression of Uyghur muslims (this oppression has been well documented by NGOs, for example: amnesty.org.uk/actions/help-en).

Other posts deny that North Korea is oppressive.

Meanwhile, another suggests celebrating Stalin's birthday as he was such a great guy.

(Incidentally, I have receipts, DM me if you want to see them for yourself.)

4/6

Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression 

You get the picture.

These posts were on the main Lemmy instance, as featured on the official Lemmy website.

Over the past few days I have tried to engage with Lemmy about these posts in private, as I was sure it must be a misunderstanding.

However, Lemmy said that "none of the posts you linked are against our rules", and refused to even discuss the actual issues because "this format is not conducive to political disagreements".

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Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression 

I deeply regret ever having publicised Lemmy. I'm really sorry.

Don't use Lemmy.

For whatever my opinion is worth any more, I would now recommend that people cancel their donations to Lemmy, stay as far away from Lemmy as possible, and donate to another Fediverse project instead.

I was wondering whether to stay quiet, but it seemed better to speak up and say something

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Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression 

@feditips links would be good though. These are serious matters, and as a person involved in keeping one strongly leftist/anarchist instance running, I need some source material to make figure things out for myself.

Thanks.

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@rysiek @feditips I'm sorry but I think you are mixing Lemmy the software and lemmy.ml the instance.

On lemmy.ml discussions about communism like the three you mention happen. I reject them like you! Also other related to mainstream mindset (capitalism, neocolonialism...) that I see very enriching. Nowadays I don't participate on that concrete instance, but I use the softwares #Lemmy and #Lemmur everyday.

@rysiek @feditips there are dozens of instances, the developers of Lemmy want you to create your instances and use the software as you want, because it's free software.

I know many free software developers I don't agree (people that support wars for oil, very sexist men, who are happy to buy cheap clothes made by slaves...) but I still use those softwares. Probably you too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I run lemmy.eus with some friends because we think #Lemmy is a great software.

@rysiek @feditips they are disgusting scientists, writers, software developers, painters, actors, athletes... Linux Torvalds and Richard Stallman have done things I strongly disagree. It was a free software developer that actually murdered his wife.

I try to focus on what people creates, if the creation itself is good for the society I take that and push aside the rest. Why don't you try to criticise lemmy.ml's editorial line AND use/translate/support Lemmy?

Lemmy, human rights 

@txopi @rysiek

As I said in the thread above, politics is not the issue. The issue is human rights.

The threads I mentioned were denying well-documented mass oppression.

The developers seem to think this denial is within the rules of their instance.

Because of this, I don't trust the developers' judgement on moral issues any more (and morality is really important to anyone building a social media platform).

re: Lemmy, human rights 

@feditips @txopi @rysiek So basically politics. Okay. The issue would be human rights if the developers were the ones committing crimes against humanity, or directly supporting it. But they aren't. It's not even ongoing events.

re: Lemmy, human rights 

@meshy @txopi @rysiek

No, it's not politics.

Torture is always wrong for exactly the same reasons, whether the torturer is far right, far left or somewhere in between.

And these are very much ongoing events

The Uyghur are suffering right now, as are the North Koreans. Denying that they are being oppressed is making life easier for the people doing the oppressing.

re: Lemmy, human rights 

@feditips @meshy @rysiek I agree with you but according to what Lemmy is, what you say is a bit off topic. I suggest you to read this: lemmy.ml/post/70280

re: Lemmy, human rights 

@feditips @txopi @rysiek No body is taking them seriously besides a few uncontestably brain-dead morons. It will literally make no difference over their lives.

Lemmy, human rights 

@feditips

The developers federate with a communist instance too lol.

@feditips @Zach777 the .ml in the main instance stands for "marxismus, leninismus"... do you really wonder?

us-american kommunists are the developers...

@jakob @feditips

Is that what the domain stands for? The software is still good though tbh.

@jakob @feditips All I can find about the .ml domain is that it is the country of Mali's top level domain.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.ml

@Zach777
They're using it because dot.ml gives ml domains away for free.

@jakob @feditips

@helix I need to look into this for my own personal benefit now lol.

Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression 

@rysiek @feditips there is a muslim pro-uyghur person there who pretty much has the opposite opinion, he says that the mods have been friendly to him and the community has been respectful.

This post is overestimating the situation.

@rysiek It seems like @feditips hasn't distinguished between allowing political disagreements to be discussed on a platform, and making political statements as the devs of that platform. If the Lemmy devs were denying the CCP oppression of Uyghurs on official project channels, this call to avoid and defund the Lemmy software *might* be justified. Even then I it would be an overreaction IMHO, akin to destroying a village to save it from communism.

@strypey
We're exercising caution here.

China are not the evil boogiemen, Be careful about using an interpretation of #geopolitics against grassroots movements.

We don't need to look far to see how theWest have treated (destabilised, genocided and displaced, coerced) #Moslem people over decades. Yes #China is #tooBigTooExist.

Look at the pudding, or the various leaks/lies over the years. While #DanielHale, #Assange and #whistleblowers are being destroyed, we can't talk.

@rysiek @feditips

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