@musicmatze What a great protocol indeed ! Too bad there aren't yet any useable clients for it 😉

@alice
I guess you mean IRC, because there are tons of usable clients for Matrix.

@musicmatze Still need to hear about a single one : )

https://matrix.org/clients/ leaves an awful aftertaste of emptyness. The ones I've tried so far either feel uncomfortable, don't allow audio or video calls or like Element simply have a buggy UX.

@alice cannot comprehend anything of what you said. I am using element on all devices and it works beautifully.

@musicmatze Electron bloatware makes it unusable as a desktop application, web client doesn't support connection from a «private navigation» session. This is not software, it's a joke : )

@alice @musicmatze tried Element, Fractal (on postmarketOS), Nheko (on Debian) and Spectral. I was not really satisfied. And if you are admin of a home server, good luck without Element to let users manager their accounts.

@KitKat
I loughed so hard. But 2051 is probably bit too close prediction.
@musicmatze @yyp

@musicmatze
I feel like Xmpp isn't pushed enough as an alternative, I guess it's just not as easy to setup a group/room?

@benarmit xmpp cannot handle network split, has too many incompatibilities with itself (clients not being able to do certain things), relies on extensions that not everyone supports... in general a good idea, but IMO also outdated and not future proof (mentioned network split).

@musicmatze
Why is it over now more than it already was? I mean I heard something happened to it but I have no idea what. I didn't use of for a long time.

@deerbard freenode is basically shut down, the biggest (most known) node. Havn't used it (IRC) either, except for some channels I joined via the matrix-irc bridge(s).

@musicmatze
Oh!
That's the only node I used! Was nice for talking directly to devs! That's sad.

@musicmatze The time of Matrix will be over as well when matrix.org crashes like that

@yyp this may be true, but IMO less likely because of federation.

@musicmatze 99% of people are on matrix.org, and federation wouldn't help that much. Also, migration from bad Matrix homeserver is harder than from alike IRC network because you need to do all account re-management stuff. In IRC you just point your client to a different server.

@yyp I moved my account from matrix.org to a private hosted server, after I tested it for a few weeks, with absolutely no issues (and fully automated!). And that was _with_ moving my identity and all chats and everything. Moving without that is exactly the same as it was with IRC: Point your client to another server.

@musicmatze if only there was a good implementation and not so much users on matrix.org.
xmpp is decentralized not only in theory, robust. Synapse is not that reliable.

@musicmatze we totally migrated to synapse since a year. I am working in a CSIRT... We have our own home server... It's fine for us, we are kind of geeks... But seriously it's less robust than the xmpp network.

But if it would depends on me, I would just use xmpp with OMEMO.

@musicmatze actually what matrix.org did during FOSDEM is impressive. But they are the only able to do this.

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