@veer66 What is too tight? If your software/site flies on 2G; it'll be an amazing experience for those on 2G and highers. The lesson here is that to have a stellar experience, designing and testing in the most common (and usually overlooked) parameters can lead to great results. @mishari

@jalcine @mishari Too tight means testing on too slow network e.g. 2400 bps modem. This leads back to my first question. I will rephrase it. Where do people still use 2G?

@veer66 @mishari No lie, I haven't responded for a few reasons:

1) There's no strong case against testing in low speed environments: it literally helps you improve speed times when testing code

2) This "request for evidence" is something you can handle as easily and in the same amount of time you've requested it over here: bfy.tw/LeDr

@veer66 the point is not 2G the point is constraints force you to implement better design. @jalcine

@mishari @jalcine I agree with limiting connection speed to test the web. However, with 2G speed, I have to exclude podcast, video, etc. And I have no information that any potential target still use 2G.

@mishari @jalcine I also wonder whether 2G net is just first world imagination or it is really the case somewhere. If it is really the case, it is very interesting.

@veer66 @mishari @jalcine idk if it's 2G but if you've ever used WiFi on a train you've known the suffering of a slow and intermittent connection.

@grainloom @veer66 @mishari @jalcine our, just, a (regional) train through Germany.

there's bursts of 4G when you're stood in a station, but otherwise you'll be happy to have 3G, and you'll be unhappy to have 2G cuz most things just don't work on it

and i don't know how much of this is due to TLS connection establishment

@grainloom @veer66 @mishari @jalcine and then, of course, there's wide stretches with no connection at all

for instance, sitting on the side of sofa further away from the window at home, i often lose connection while making a phone call.

@hirojin @grainloom I can walk into my university and immediately lose connection to an otherwise very big network (own carrier + some more networks they use). Brutalist Concrete Buildings, hooray.
@hirojin @jalcine @mishari @veer66 @grainloom TLS 1.3 might help a little, but still... 2G latency is not designed for our ridiculous protocols
@veer66 @jalcine @mishari be careful with your reasoning 1) your assumptions about your audience will probably be wrong anyway. people want to use good software anywhere on any network regardless of speed and the way they access it. Low bandwidth testing also helps accessibility. I deeply hate websites designed for some particular demographics, which usually means "using retina MacOS machine from 2017 of later, occasionally switching to iPhone 6+"
@veer66 @jalcine @mishari and 2) some providers throttle connections to some ridiculous 2G speeds after the bandwidth has been used up. This usually coincides with some very urgent need to access the information. I am also very often confronted with very bad network conditions when traveling (trains, cars, tunnels, underground lines, whatever).

@saper @jalcine @mishari "This usually coincides with some very urgent need to access the information."

This is good point! 😃

@saper @jalcine @mishari For example, making video steaming website on 2G network will be too challenging and there will be nothing at all, instead of something works on 3G. I know that they want it. And yes, someone want to watch video streaming without Internet connection too.

@veer66 @mishari @jalcine (btw you can do video and audio on crappy connections, you just gotta downsample by A Lot. but when I was stealing wifi for my dorm floor from two floors above, dammit I was thankful for finding 0.000001 bits per second online radio stations. lesson: scaling down can be as important as scaling up)

@grainloom @mishari @jalcine "0.000001 bits per second online radio stations" sounds interesting. Can you provide me more information?

@veer66 @mishari @jalcine that's a bit exaggerated tbh, i just searched for something like "low bit rate online radio" and found a collection of online radio stations

@veer66 @mishari @jalcine
s/a bit/a lot/
i mean, getting less than one bit per second would be horribly slow
but idk what bitrate it was and i don't even know what are the common bitrates so i just wrote some small number 😂

@mishari @jalcine [OT] Next week, we are going to talk to people from Mozilla Taipei about culture and situation here at Grande Centre Point Terminal 21 lobby at 14:00 2019-01-13. They are going to explore by themselves too. I invite you.

@mishari They are going to take a look to their potential users by themselves instead of imaging about the users at their office and searching for average something from search engines.

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