I've been thinking that the difference between "Agile" and "Waterfall" is that Agile is cooperative and Waterfall is antagonistic.

That is in Agile "stakeholders" and "tech team" are a single team that solves common goal. In Waterfall they are two camps that distrust each other. Other differences are less important.

You can't have Agile without trust, and you really can't have agile in governmental contracts organized via tenders.

@jacek to be honest, waterfall is a bit of a strawman created to market the agile methodologies. In healthy environments there are always feedback loops and the design can be changed to accomodate changing environment.

And if your environment is not as healthy, you get "agile, but the customer doesn't come to meetings" version of the methodology, which is pretty much equivalent to the waterfall, except you also do those pointless rituals.

@deshipu I don't disagree.

The way I understand waterfall is that it allows you to, formalize distrust, that is you "formalize requirements" and then these requirements are part of the tender contract. Then you have "tests" to prove that contractual requirements have been met.

There can be no "actual stakeholders" in this process.

@jacek All sorts of degenerate setups are possible, and it may be interesting to research them from the sociological point of view, but I find it pointless to delve into them practically, since they never produce desired solutions. I prefer to focus on setups that work, and those invariably include a (preferably tight) feedback loop, formal or informal.

@jacek In my experience working with customers that don't trust you is not practically possible anyways.

@deshipu Well it's how all governmental contracts are set up, and things get shipped.

So it is not fun, not something I'd want to do. It's not cheap and not effective. But, somehow, work gets done.

@jacek You are ignoring all the out-of-band communication that is happening in the successful projects.

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