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sexual assault 

@trickster Are you seriously defending one villain by saying that another one is worse? Also victim blaming?

sexual assault 

@deshipu I'm not defending cloudflare, I'm just curious. What has cloudflare, the company, actually done?

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@trickster Same as what Intel, Microsoft, Google, Amazon or any other evil monopolist has done: they have built a monopoly and are using the power gained to uphold it, and possibly widen it.

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@deshipu Cloudflare is a monopoly, de facto, I don't think there's anyone else in their specific area of DoS protection

because it requires a huge network, it has a builtin huge price of entry, but my question is: have they tried to sabotage or otherwise prevent other companies getting into this area? (which is what FAANGS do)

have they used their position to increase the cost of entry further?

these are not rethorical questions, I'm genuinely curious

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@deshipu because again, it seems like the problem with cloudflare is that people use it instead of using other services, and I don't think that's enough to wish death upon them

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@trickster as is the problem with any other monopolist, if you think about it

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@trickster Look, I'm not looking to put a blame on anyone, I don't care *how* this situation has arisen, what I care about is that it's making a shared resource (the Internet) demonstrably worse, and therefore should be stopped.

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@deshipu look, we're on the same page here, I understand how they're making the internet a shittier place and even if I didn't, it's apparent how when they go down, 33% of the net goes down

but to compare them to the people that pour money into lobbying, buy out competitors, raise the cost of doing business, etc. is a bit weird, because it's not like we would be done with them if cloudflare stopped doing anything they're doing (except just closing down their doors)

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@deshipu the moment cloudflare goes away, lazy webadmins will jump to the next one-click solution and we would be none the wiser

I'm not saying you shouldn't hate cloudflare and advise against it, just that it feels unproductive to concentrate oh them and not the people behind the admin panel

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@trickster You can analyze any evil thing that happened in the history, and show how it was unavoidable that it happened, how the parties involved simply did the best thing for themselves — and that doesn't make the thing any less evil. And again, defending something bad by pointing to a worse thing is not a good strategy.

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@deshipu fair enough, my initial point was framed poorly and I shouldn't have done in the shitty unproductive way I did

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@trickster @deshipu If I choose not to engage with Ubisoft, it's trivial. If I don't want Cloudflare to attack my privacy, lol haha forget it.
Cloudflare aggressively insert themselves into my life. They profile me, interrupt me with free work for Google (in so doing, snitching me to Google also), and they actively attack Tor users to force them to enable a massive attack surface (JS) which IS used to attack and put them at risk.

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@trickster @deshipu Which is not to say they're worse than Ubi because.. why even have that conversation. But if the question is "why do people spend more time hating the people they can't escape than the ones they can", well

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@cathal as far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong) CloudFlare does not mess with Tor users by default, but they do offer lazy webadmins the ability to mess with them and outright ban them from visiting a website

this is more the webadmin doing something they always wanted to, but didn't know how / didn't think it was worth the effort

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@cathal as for the profiling (again, please correct me) that should most happen if you're not visiting over https OR the theoretical lazy admin clicked the "handle TLS for me" button in the cloudflare panel, which hosts like digital ocean also offer (and all the same can track you)

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@cathal like none of these absolve CF in any way or are unlegitimate cricisims because other people are also doing it, I just see a lot of people being really really mad at cloudflare and I feel like I'm missing something

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