cj 🇺🇸🇨🇭 @cj@mastodon.technology

@hypolite @dumpsterqueer @heluecht "Don't even have to rely on Mastodon Project hosting special file anymore."

...and also you wouldn't have to rely on me to keep a copy up to date. Eliminates a dependency. Y'all's apps would be the sole ones responsible for outbound "go-fed use this specific content address for mastodon context payload" and inbound "i got a content addressed URI let me look for its content in my local copy".

@hypolite @dumpsterqueer also adding @heluecht as FYI

@hypolite and @dumpsterqueer all youd have to do in your JSON-LD processors is detect if it's a http(s) URI or content addressed one. I'd allow a hook where you can provide the content address URI you'd like to use for the masto context. You'd know the mapping of "context content" to "content address", so it's also easy to locally store/embed into the app and locally load. Don't even have to rely on Mastodon Project hosting special file anymore.

@hypolite Mastodon failing to deliver the JSON-LD payload at its context link is not a go-fed bug. Adding @Gargron as FYI for https://github.com/mastodon/joinmastodon/issues/148

If mastodon is unwilling to fix, I don't want to have to manually maintain a custom copy of their stuff. I would rather introduce a content-addressed concept into go-fed. The JSON-LD processors (which are also out of scope for go-fed) when they see a content addressed URI can "fetch" the correct local copy.

@weex There was also an idea to host the FEPs at https://library.activitypub.dev/ but I never updated the library's code.

@humanetech @gert @dansup @pukkamustard

@weex A small list of things that needs FEPs: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/come-help-list-of-feps-needed/1097

@humanetech @gert @dansup @pukkamustard

@humanetech I am fine with a move to codeberg. I think most of the FEP things are documented in the git repository, not in the issues specific to git.activitypub.dev. It would be good to get explicit opinion from @pukkamustard and @lain as well though.

@weex @gert @dansup

@suetanvil Well, i wouldn't say anyone involved in this craziness is toxic. I think people are just hurting.

In the meantime we can kiss APConf 2021 goodbye. Outlook not so good on any future ones either.

@dansup @Gargron

@dansup @Gargron ...and that direct fast communication is fine for speed of "how can I quickly unblock *my* work and have the 'right' people agree with *me*" but in my view that structure alone is just a secret cartel, not a sustainable developer community.

In any case, it's just my opinion, I realize you have yours. I acknowledge our experiences are different. And if my experience is the "wrong" one then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@dansup @Gargron See sibling: i don't care to rehash the past. He could have done X. We could have done Y. Who cares, everyone has room to grow.

The point is: our community of federated advocates keeps shrinking. It's not just on the person being banned to reflect and grow. It's on us too.

If we keep eating our own, then I guess corporate social media has won then.

@Gargron I'm not interested in rehashing the tit-for-tat escalation. One man's picture of shark gore is another independent reporter's photojournalism over illegal poaching of endangered species. I don't care about that.

My point simple point is, I am providing you feedback how your handling of this is impacting other people and other communities. It is negative.

If you don't understand where I am coming from, and do not wish to, that's fine. I've made myself heard.

@Gargron given that you've never really engaged with the ActivityPub community, it's clear there's no opportunity for soft touch "hey man keep doing your thing but just please don't do it on my instance" sort of understanding rooted in camraderie. Which could of helped here.

Instead, given your continued pattern of not engaging the federated dev community within which mastodon lives (only opportunistically), it is really really hard for me to not take the pessimistic view.

@Gargron We should not be creating the federated environment where when you do a moderation action against them, it's in such a way where they want to completely leave the federated platform forever and never come back. For people that are championing and advancing that federated platform.

That is the root problem that seems to not be adequately addressed here.

@Gargron Yes, that sucks and is inexcusable. I'm not here to defend that behavior. I think for that incident, we've all been "that's not cool at all".

However, I am going to challenge your behavior. Things req. to escalate to this are also in part a reflection of the (lax) moderation on your instance. For ex, I would ask the unapologetically black instance, but they're also no longer here.

In my mind, there is a moderation problem, and it hurts every other community but yours.

@Gargron There is no easy way to say this: your continued lack of engagement on anything higher-level than Mastodon, really hurts the community at large. This is objectively an instance where your continued lack of action in engaging in ActivityPub-level anything is actually hostile to the community at large. We are losing a great community member with excellent communication and knowledge because of this.

I am forced to treat you and your masto.social as actively hostile to the principles of ActivityPub.

@Gargron Hey man, do you ever plan on joining the community at SocialHub? Or Socialcg? Do you ever plan on joining any group that's trying to do "ActivityPub" and not just Mastodon?

You're banning a core member that actually participates in the small but dedicated ActivityPub group. They're one of the members responsible for getting interop legal language in the EU's DSA/DMA working with MPs and the EU Comission.

@raphael Both. I generally find "think of the children" as a moral blank check to cash in to justify anything, which makes it not a compelling argument for me. I also disagree with their goals of eliminating everything sex industry related from being legal, which does puts me at odds with reasonable folk that don't use the aforementioned argument.

@raphael And one last thing, that may help you: I was born and raised in the evangelical South to a religiously divided household. Catholic school, Protestant sunday school. I grew up learning both religions, was forced by my parents to choose 1 (confirmed protestant). Catholic side of family has always tried to convert me since.

I'm very familiar with religious moral arguments around things like masturbation, pornography, prostitution. I just don't have time to type a nuanced essay.

@raphael Look man, the past 2 decades of COPPA / FOSTA-SESTA / anti-encryption and all of these infringements to digital liberties has included a concentrated focus on sex trafficking, which has always been a euphamism for *child* sex trafficking, all of which is horrible. But in my 20+ years of these conversations w/ these activists, when it comes to the moral appeals to persuade the public / congress it almost always is most effective for them to say "think of the kids".

@raphael You can think I'm being overly reductionist, but I think of myself as merely looking at why they are practically so effective in their propaganda deployment: "think of the children" appeals to parents, and every human being on earth has 2 of those.

Yes, there are *other* nuanced moral reasons, but they are less appealing and less effective in getting their goals achieved. Look at the anti-forced labor movement propaganda for similarities (propaganda against *child* forced labor works better).