So I've been wondering what kind of app to build on top of go-fed for a long while. A straightforward forum seems like a good start. However, with dipping my toes back into Eve Online, I think there's an opportunity to take a forum idea further. Just brainstorming...

Eve Online in-game communities have an asymmetrical organization problem. People organize into Corporations. Corporations organize into Alliances. Those are in-game mechanics. Out of game, Alliances organize into coalitions.


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Alliances have in-game mechanics that make them -- and not corporations -- the basic organizational unit. Alliances can hold sovereignty, Corporations can't. Because of this, Alliance-level communication has led to Alliance-level software and tools and community building. OK.

But because of this and other factors, the small community (corporation) can't compete, and alliance centralization has led to huge blob monoliths that you either join or avoid. There is no more "little guy"

That makes it very, nigh-impossible, hard to live as a small corporation in the lawless / player-run space. Alliances have dpecialized software, tools, and communities to help do intel, coordinate getting rich, and staying safe. Corps maybe have discord and a loose bag of more limited tools.

It is also very hostile to independent capsules who just want a taste of lawlessness. "Not blue, shoot it" is the default: if you aren't in a mega alliance, you're dead.


The alternative to NBSI "not blue shoot it", which is hostile to anything smaller than mega alliance, is NRDS "not red don't shoot", aka "give them a chance, if they are bad and then become red, then shoot". NRDS does the opposite by carving out space for medium and small folks to live.

However, NBSI is 1000x easier to manage than NRDS. But, I believe specialized federated software can help in this regard. Which would lower the barrier for the smaller indie guys in the game


@cj I believe this short game illustrates some of the mechanisms that are relevant to what you describe:

@cj Eve Online is cpitalisam tooth and claw... worth a though on that one when thinking of the fedivers

@cj we are looking for coders to build #indymediaback which is a much closer match to the fedivers.

@Hamishcampbell the top elite PvP alliance the first 6 years (BOB) was full blown ascetic communism. It goes through phases.

@cj the code is idelogical this game is pure neo-liberal capitalisam - must be some articals somewere on this?

@Hamishcampbell FYI:

The game code is just both "market-based" and "contract-based" (which can be bartering). It's capitalistic in that players control most of the economy, but there's actually no "capital begets more money" system -- you have to actually do work to get any sort of reward (which may not be money). The developers hate passive income, though there are very limited ways to do it in small amounts.

If players offer each other ROIs, it's 99% a scam (legal in the game). Take the $ and run.

@Hamishcampbell The articles are hard to find but Evolution is well-known as the core BOB group and is very much a group practicing some form of communalism for nearly the entire length of the game (~18 years now?)

Here's a talk from a guy who wrote books on it. He calls early BOB "fascist" because despite their economic communism, the political structure was indeed run by 1 dude at the time.

@cj all code is ideology solidified into action - the game is capitalisam, yes you can try and play any ideolagy ontop of this code but the outcome and assumptions are pre-programed... cant find any good links on this.

@Hamishcampbell I hear ya, but hey I guess that means it's a watered-down training wheel version of attempting to doing the same in real life? IRL seems to have an ideological bent in the same way as the code...

@Hamishcampbell Anyway, my main point was simply thinking about connecting the human beings that play the game with each other, as a concrete usecase example.

I understand it isn't exciting for you, and those gamers are probably not your target audience...

@cj @Hamishcampbell yep #activertpub would work well for that - but it would likly need to be built into the game engine?

@witchescauldron @Hamishcampbell I was thinking of keeping it entirely external from the game. Just independent forum software, that can use eve's API for tools.

Those tools then let the small grassroots groups of gamers in the game begin to compete against the megablobs, who today have the centralized forums and mega tools in their custom non-federating code.

@witchescauldron @Hamishcampbell But don't confuse my idle thoughts here for commitment nor action... this is only just thinkin'. My actual efforts are elsewhere.

@cj its an intresting subject, have a brouther who is a old school Eve player am going off the few conversations I have had with him on the subject.


> So I've been wondering what kind of app to build on top of go-fed for a long while.

How about a foss and federated / where people collobarate on an unbounded canvas.

Sticky notes, diagram / model types are persisted as OWL-defined vocabs.

One of many applications is a go-fed vocab designer that has process baked in, e.g. starting with an Event Storm, Domain Modeling, ending with codegen, persist in a code forge.

@cj would you like to take this brainstorm to Lemmy in the SocialHub Fediverse Futures companion space?

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