I find it incredibly surprising that many or folk take the 0th pillar's "freedom of use" to mistakenly mean "freedom of usage by creating a software feature" instead of the true intended meaning: "freedom of usage under the license conditions".

Because that's what RMS has always been about: the software licenses being symmetrical in power between the distributor of software and receiver of software. It creates a level playing field in terms of what "politics" are contained in the software.

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Because that is the core of Software Freedom/Liberty: the right for a Person to take a software that expresses a [political] view they disagree with, obtain a copy of that software with equal capability as the distributor, modify that [political] view to be more amenable, and then redistribute it without any additional licensing burdens.

It's never about what specific views or capabilities are in the software itself. Heck, you could fork and purposefully add bugs and it is still no less Freedom respecting.

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So trying to argue the 0th pillar "freedom of use" is about specific software capabilities is mistaken. It's a gateway to the un-reconcilable "well N users demand my software have feature X, and an equal number also demand an incompatible feature Y." How could one ever satisfy the 0th pillar under this condition, and why would RMS never discuss this situation?

Perhaps because it is the wrong interpretation. :) RMS spends time at the "licensing level", not at the "what does your software do exactly" level.

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@TheCzar @cj If you do this, and package it, I will recommend your tusky over the other one (and I have set a good couple of people up with tusky, and expect to do more in the future)

@jeffcliff Appreciate the free Tusky publicity, and can only imagine the reasons you'll have to list to folks when you try to convince them not to use upstream.

If the reasoning includes confusing censorship (the tool) with free speech (the multiple principles), "Tusky ain't Libre Software", or something along the lines of "tech shouldn't be political" then I've got Bingo!

@TheCzar

@cj @TheCzar tusky is free/libre, and I can choose not to use upstream, because this censorship is a braindead wrong approach to gab. gab shouldn't be silenced, full stop.

@cj @TheCzar Just like I suggest people not use gab's version of mastodon, because gab censors, too.

@jeffcliff I don't see why Gab shouldn't be silenced. I have not been impressed with any of the arguments coming out of that instance. If any arguments come out at all, because a lot of what I have seen is just pure hatred of Jews and blacks with slurs and racial stereotyping.

That's not a productive community. It's not a healthy community.

@jeffcliff Also: censorship is a tool, like a hammer, and it is wielded to further a specific higher purpose. Much like hammers can build houses or flaming crosses, censorship can be used to improve discourse or silence specific ideas. Hating against "censorship" makes about as much sense as hating hammers. It opens one's self to criticism for being anti-higher-purpose for all tool uses. So it's kind of an intellectually lazy stance: more nuance around the tool's use is needed.

@jeffcliff For instance, I think silencing hate speech ("gas all X", "kill all Y", etc) leads to improved discourse. If a person thinks "I know, I'm going to put my well thought out argument in this space full of hate speech instead of an area without it", I don't have sympathy if their speech gets caught up in the hate speech censor. There's just too many options on the Fediverse for self hosting. There's too many options on the internet to run ones own blog.

@jeffcliff There's ways to get a message out there that doesn't involve associating ones opinion with hate speech that has led to actual, real world violence.

Censorship is a tool. We should remain vigilant around its use, but blanket hating censorship as if it were a principle is confusing a tool for it's wielded purpose.

I haven't seen any nuanced opinions around this on the gab issue, only "I don't like censorship so it's bad" which is wholly unconvincing and unprincipled.

@cj
No. Censorship is not a tool that you should be using, or recommending, period full stop. I'm going to resist you, any time you use it.

@cj What about it? We're not talking about spam we're talking about the content of spam. That's like asking "what if we have a hurricane" as a justification for not letting a pinprick of water through a dam.

@jeffcliff Yes, we are talking about content that is off topic, in copious volume, and may or may not make sense to the topic at hand. It is a distraction that prevents constructive dialog like we are having.

If your model doesn't allow for censoring spam, that's a huge red flag to me.

@cj It's not off topic to someones' *own personal feed*. You do not get to decide what is and not offtopic to me, and my feed

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