While @sir over there works on a rio-like compositor (go check it out!),

I've spent some time trying to port plan9port (aka Plan 9 from User Space) to the yesterday. It's not quite working yet, but many subprojects already build, and at least mk works.

The really exciting part of course would be to switch the custom filesystems back from 9P over a Unix socket to real Hurd translators.

@bugaevc I'm curious, do translators work over the network like 9P does? What do they offer that 9P doesn't?

@grainloom yes and no. The translators work over Mach IPC, which is itself not network-transparent, but it can be made to be using a pair of special proxy tasks, a lot like Unix pipes are not network transparent, but there's netcat that makes them n.t.

Conceptually the translator API is similar to 9P, but translators are capability-based & do a lot more than 9P servers, e.g. translators handle UIDs/GIDs/auth, exec'ing using the exec server, etc.

It should be possible to build a 9P translator.

@bugaevc @grainloom
I like how fakeroot can be implemented in Hurd by just spawning a fake UID server.

@Wolf480pl @grainloom yes, though I don't think it should be called a 'fake' auth server. It's just *another* auth server that the root filesystem does not trust. But if you, say, mount your own ext2 image from an iso, you can make that ext2fs use this new auth server.

@bugaevc *looks up with extreme interest*
what's going on here please explain

@cwebber I don't know how familiar you are with all this, but basically,
• Plan 9 is an OS, the next project of the Unix team at Bell Labs after Unix; like Unix but better, simpler and with native network transparency
• plan9port aka Plan 9 from User Space is a port of Plan 9 userspace programs/utilities to run under Unix
• GNU Hurd is a Unix kernel based on microkernel architecture that can be used instead of Linux
• now it is possible to run plan9port on top of GNU/Hurd Unix systems too

@cwebber if Guix supports Hurd, then as soon as i upstream the Hurd port 😉

(and add GNUstep to the stack!)

@bugaevc @selea you should update the plan9 wikipedia page and announce on the GNU Guix mailing list. There may be takers.

@pjotrp @selea let's wait with updating Wikipedia at least wait till my pull request is merged (or rejected)


20 years passed since the last time I booted HURD, but let me say this is a great job.

@bugaevc cool!
Btw. is there any active developement on HURD these days?
Is it still on Mach or did they finally port to L4?

@Wolf480pl not active, but it doesn't seem stalled either

Of course it's still on Mach, why does everyone think they were actually going to move to L4? There were discussions and even prototypes, but nothing serious came out if it, as far as I'm aware.

I was under the impression that Mach's performance issues were a blocker, but maybe I was wrong.

@Wolf480pl it wasn't a blocker per se; Mach works fine if somewhat slow

@bugaevc I'd have more faith in something seL4 or Fiasco.OC, but I may as well be completely wrong.

Anyway, how well does HURD work at the moment? Is it usable as a daily driver?

@Wolf480pl @bugaevc Sure, if you control the environment very tightly. It is kind of like Classic MacOS, where as long as you stick to the well tested configurations (of which there are few), it works pretty well.

@bugaevc 🎶 Let's all get up and dance to a song that was a hit before your mother was born🎶 (Paul wearing black carnation)

Seeing progress on #Hurd projects makes me wonder how easy or difficult it would be to port it to the #Kestrel3 when it's mature enough to support protected memory. #KestrelComputerProject

@bugaevc Plan 9 and Hurd together? That is amazing! Never thought I'd see that.

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Mastodon for Tech Folks

The social network of the future: No ads, no corporate surveillance, ethical design, and decentralization! Own your data with Mastodon!