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We wrapped up Star Trek Discovery’s second season last night. Visually stunning, fun, well-acted, with a great score. But also: poorly paced, convoluted, and confusing to follow the plot.

I can’t dislike it, mainly because of Michelle Yeoh and Anson Mount, but I wish I could have liked it more. It was so preoccupied with tying itself into existing cannon that I think it lost itself. Changing show runners halfway through the season probably hurt, too.

Hopefully season three is even better!

I mean, it’s been two seasons I can only make a few of the Discovery’s bridge crew.

To contrast: we’re four episodes into Strange New Worlds and we already know the tragic backstories on Uhura, Una, M’Benga and La’an – all the characters feel more real and the world feels lived-in.

SNW is so good! It has no right being this good this quickly!

@ashfurrow SNW is AMAZING. It's THE Star Trek I've been waiting 20 years for. You can relate to the people and connect with them. It has that classic cheese of Trek, but you REALLY get the "explore strange new worlds. Seek out new life and new civilizations" feel that Star Trek has been missing since TNG imo.

DS9 and Voyager were great in their own way. I wasn't a fan of Enterprise. Discovery and Picard I've given up on.

is INCREDIBLE.

@ozoned @ashfurrow I love them all. Each has its own quirkiness, old and new. I just immerse myself in each series and go with the flow. It'll be a long while before I see as I'm on free to air satellite. But, if I had to pick a favourite it would probably be the initial run of Enterprise.

@gruff Well when you get a chance for SNW, and you enjoy original Trek, I highly recommend you check it out. :-)

@ashfurrow Discovery gets better in Season Three, and they flesh out the crew a bit more (and don't have to deal with pre-existing continuity). Strange New Worlds has had possibly the strongest first season of any Trek yet, though.

@ashfurrow my only theory is that they got to soft-launch it with the intersections with Discovery S2, which gave the writers and key actors a chance to find their voices

@bruceiv @ashfurrow Disco S3 and S4 still suffer from the same overall arc of every season of Discovery so far, at least for me, which is that by the end of the season it's all about the big macro plots but it's all going so breathlessly yet dumbly that it's impossible to care about what's going on plot-wise. Big obvious questions are going unasked while huge rousing speeches are being given twice an episode, a lot of sound and fury signifying, well, yaknow.

Really compounded by how Discovery, and Picard for that matter, seem to think the audience already knows and deeply loves the big cast of new characters who we never see outside of a crisis and thus barely ever get to know the names of, much less form any attachment to or understanding of. I guess we're supposed to have read all the tie-in novels or whatnot . . .

It's funny that SNW fit more "downtime where we get to know the characters" in any given episode so far than Disco or Picard have in entire seasons; hell, last week's SNW episode probably does more than either Disco or Picard have done *in total*. Hopefully the bigshots, who seem distracted with Picard and thus a bit more hands-off with SNW, stay away from the show . . .

@ashfurrow 2 was my least favorite season of Discovery, but part of that is because I liked how it was starting so much.

We had a mystery, things to explore, an episodic nature, and then…The Arc happened.

There are few plots I like less than 'Evil AI kills everyone because…uh…well…y'know. Because.'

And there's only one thing in Star Trek I dislike more than Section 31.

So it felt like a whiplash from really good to really bad, to me.

@Azure so, I get where you're coming from. I really didn't like how forced the whole plot felt.

But I'm curious about what you dislike more than Section 31. I *love* Section 31 as depicted in DS9. Discovery's depiction felt so... weird. Like the power of Section 31 was how no one really knew if it existed or not, it had not HQ, etc. But in Disco, everyone's all like "oh yeah, there goes Section 31 alright" 🙄

@ashfurrow I didn't really like it in DS9 either, but you are right, the way it's represented in Discovery makes absolutely NO sense, right down to special all-black Section 31 badges.

BUT, the thing I dislike more than Section 31 is the Borg Queen. I keep hoping that at some point in Discovery the Borg will go "We can't believe you fell for that, it's such a silly idea. Did you think we'd really saddle ourselves with a single point of failure?" and then laugh in that creepy chorus effect.

@Azure @ashfurrow Oh ughhh, the introduction of the Borg Queen is one of the things that most disappointed me in Star Trek TNG. Like, the Borg weren't bees, they were a dramatization of the alien horror of distributed systems deployed against you

@Azure yeah, I get that too. Being over-powering is what made the Borg such interesting villains, but it's hard to tell stories about an enemy with no weaknesses. So the more stories we got about the Borg, the more the stories weakened them.

I haven't seen the Borg in Disco yet, but I hear this kind of thing about Voyager and I do get it. But I also really like the Borg in Voyager, so 🤷

@Azure I heard the Borg described as the opposite of the Federation, where you have two cultures with advanced technology but only one of them has empathy. From that perspective, I really like stories about the Borg (especially when Seven confronts Janeway when first freed from the collective). But like I said, I do get where fans are coming from there.

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