@ariasuni That must be hard. As a user and supporter of F-droid, I too am really disappointed at them for not doing the right thing. If this continues, I really wonder what it would take to fix this or perhaps to start an alternative service to F-droid that has strict policies against apps which promote fascists but I doubt if a lot of people would care since F-droid is already quite niche.

@ariasuni Free software needs to be disconnected from politics. Judging someone as good or bad is not the purpose of FOSS. Repositories in FOSS cannot and should not get burried in the app police role that Google and Apple have taken.We need to be better than that. If you don't like projects, you can speak out, and you have, and that's good. But asking someone to silence something you don't like is itself fascistic.

@djsumdog
> Free software needs to be disconnected from politics.

Free Software was political from the beginning, because of its ethical and ideological motivations.

> Repositories in FOSS cannot and should not get burried in the app police role that Google and Apple have taken.We need to be better than that

How the fuck fighting against hate speech is the same than Apple and Google protecting their economical interests??

@djsumdog
> But asking someone to silence something you don't like is itself fascistic.

1. It’s not something «I don’t like», it’s something that actively and blatantly hurts marginalized people. That’s a *fact*.
2. No it’s not. I don’t know, just read Wikipedia or open a dictionary, you’ll see how much saying this is bullshit.

Seriously, I just want F-Droid to not support or facilitate hate speech, and you’re saying I’m a fascist. That’s so fucking backwards.

@ariasuni
> I’m a fascist

fascistic != fascist. It's fascistic. I'm not labeling you, but I think you're ideology in this point goes against moving forward together as a human race that is moving towards a better world. Silencing people for x, y or z does not move us forward. It is so easy to label x as "bad" or "nazi" or "hitler" and you close off actual, real, legit discussion.

F-Dord's team just wants good open source apps. Allow reproducible builds and that's their ideology. That's it.

@ariasuni

> because of its ethical and ideological motivations.

Which revolved around being able to inspect code and fix things. It had nothing to do with race, sex, gender, or anything other than just being able to fix code. It's like saying to God "give me the source code to our damn DNA because I can't decompile it." It was not about the politics you think it was (maybe RMS's abortion comment in glibc?, which is gone now anyway).

>fighting against hate speech

Talk. Be open. Understand.

@ariasuni If you label everything you don't like as hate speech, you're never going to grow as a person yourself or influence those who disagree with you. Speech is speech. It's not violence. Also from that thread; the people on that instance seemed rational. Maybe talking is better than screaming. I'm sick of everyone just calling everyone else Nazis or whatever and not actually talking. When you talk, you learn about each other and why you have concerns. Then you can move forward. Together.

F-Droid, Spinster 

@Thib

> It is hate speech. It is violent.

This is where you are absolutely, 100% wrong. Speech is not violence. This is from the book Coddling of the American Mind (p98-99) which explains what's so dangerous about that particular concept creep.

@djsumdog it's not the “asking for peaceful discussion” that is violent. They are not “asking for peaceful discussion”. They are shitting hateful discourse all over the place. What if I repeatedly told you that people like you are disgusting creeps and should die?
Wouldn't that be violence?

@Thib No. That's not violence at all. That's literally still just words. From the same book. @OCRBot

@djsumdog hateful and discriminating words have very real harmful consequences, including physical violence, discriminating laws or policies, etc.

Your definition of violence is far from being universal, and I actually don't care whether you call hateful, harmful and discriminating speech violent or not. The fact stands that it is hateful, harmful and discriminating. And thus shouldn't be promoted.

@djsumdog I could also say that your definition is 100% wrong

the first dictionary definition I can find for “violence” is literally “actions or words that are intended to hurt people”

dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/di

@Thib Webster doesn't agree:

merriam-webster.com/dictionary

The words by themselves do not have harmful consequences, it's the actions. You know at one time it was greatly offensive to say god doesn't exist, or that homosexuals should be acceptable at Oxford or that the Bible should be translated to English? Brenden O'Neil does a great talk about this. Were those ideas violent? They were just ideas, but people took action against them. Freedom of speech protects ideas.

youtube.com/watch?v=BtWrljX9HR

@djsumdog words do not have harmful consequences, right

What if you grew up around people telling you you were shit, all the time. As long as it's just words, that surely wouldn't have any consequence on how you'd grow up and construct yourself.

Fascist propaganda is also just words, I'm sure that without it, actions would have been exactly the same.

@djsumdog and again, the initial point was to not have what amounts to a flyer for an instance based around hate speech be stored, distributed, and put on the frontpage of F-Droid

If it's fine because those are just words, I guess an app calling for the death of all Free Software activists would be just as good as long as it is itself Free Software

@Thib

> death of all Free Software activists

In America, speech has limits and specific violence against a person or a people is generally not protected. But it varies on the case.

And F-Dorid is purely concerned with: is the software free/libre. It may just be a rebrand, but forking in the OSS world for minor things is pretty normal: XFree86 vs Xorg. Amazon rebrands FOSS offerings all the time (Reddis -> ElastiCache).

Why are you so afraid anyway? If they're so wrong, they won't last.

violence (maybe not, those are just words) 

violence (maybe not, those are just words) 

@ariasuni @djsumdog

How the fuck fighting against hate speech is the same than Apple and Google protecting their economical interests??

It’s not - but it’s taking a similar role: moderating apps. Once you start moderating apps, you run into many issues (what should be allowed, what should be banned, my app got banned unfairly, etc). F-Droid currently has a simple process that can be applied to any app with no subjectiveness: is it open source? Anything subjective can be abused, justify censorship, etc, and the open source world should not do it.

This drama is very tired though, they’re not gonna agree no matter how much you complain (which is a good thing).

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