@sir @enkiv2
It's compatible with 3, so why do you care if it also works with 2?

@enkiv2 its written with Py 3 as a second-class citizen. There's no excuse for that in 2019. You should be using Python 3 on your workstation and writing your software for Python 3 first. And yes, it's totally fine (and even better) to ditch Python 2 support by now.

@sir @enkiv2
python 3 *is* a second-class citizen. That said, the only change that would occur to the code if I dropped python 2 support is that a small shim for unicode would go away. I'm not willing to drop support for most users just to eliminate a couple lines of code.

@enkiv2 buuuuullshit. Most users have Python 3. Python 2 is end of life in _6 months_


@sir @enkiv2
Whether or not the python maintainers will continue to release new patches for 2.7 doesn't matter to all the folks using five year old builds of python.

@enkiv2 good to know you'll choose to stubbornly be wrong for the next 5 years

@enkiv2 only by morons. All Linux distros are rapidly removing support. You're on the wrong side of history, pal. A very stupid side to be on, too: *wanting* to use an objectively worse, unmaintained, legacy platform. Are you a sadist too?

@sir @enkiv2 even RHEL is going to drop python2. I think that time has come to avoid projects that support only python 2. Py2 was just a scripting language, while Py3 is kind of a real grown up programming language

@alexcleac @sir @enkiv2 AFAIK Fedora 31 will make python3 default and Fedora 32 will drop nearly all python2 packages. So Fedora won't have python2 in 2020 anymore.

@enkiv2 @sir @neijatolf And I think that this should be done long ago. RHEL was the first to make the decision, and others will catch up soon

@alexcleac @enkiv2 @sir @neijatolf
Sure, but (being enterprise) nobody keeps their RHEL installs up to date -- if an update has the possibility of breaking production, it doesn't get done. In other words, RHEL switching to 3 early doesn't mean that any large proportion of RHEL users have switched to 3. (Let's not ignore the folks who have a recent RHEL & have replaced 3 with 2 to avoid making their code 3-compatible, or to avoid finding out that it's not.)

@enkiv2 @alexcleac @sir @neijatolf do you think there's much overlap between the set of users who use old versions of RHEL in production and the set of users who want to install fern on those same production boxes?

@kungtotte @enkiv2 @alexcleac @sir @neijatolf
I think that there's a lot of overlap between folks who want a lightweight-but-usable mastodon client and user with old machines that can't be easily updated to run bleeding-edge software. Such folks may not be specifically singling out python to update. So, they may be running five or ten year old builds.


@enkiv2 @kungtotte @sir @neijatolf I think that this is a harmful thing - to allow keep using software that hasn’t updated for a really long time. It is, because every software have it’s security issues and just bugs, so user *has* to update the machine at least sometimes, because otherwise he will be an easy target to hack.

So that is a bad excuse to depend on deprecated technologies just because “there are old dudes who use it”

@alexcleac @enkiv2 @kungtotte @sir @neijatolf
I'm not depending on deprecated technologies -- merely supporting them.
Re: enterprise -- whether or not to patch vulns on internal software (which is only accessible by employees, & so has a different threat model) is determined by the org's packageset maintainers.

@enkiv2 @alexcleac @kungtotte @sir @neijatolf
With regard to users who cannot upgrade -- it's up to maintainers whether or not old hardware is gonna be supported on new software. Old hardware never goes away (unless it's really crappy & actually breaks), so the last widely-deployed software to be supported on it also never goes away. Everybody with a ten year old mac is running 7-year-old OSX.

@enkiv2 @kungtotte @sir @neijatolf yeah, I agree with you at this point. But regarding python2 - it is officially deprecated and recommended not to use. And AFAIK there is no such way that you can't install a newer version of python, even to outdated hardware stack.

@alexcleac @enkiv2 @kungtotte @sir @neijatolf
It's pretty easy to get into a state with binary distros where binary upgrades are fatal & where nothing will build because it can't link against a pathological combination of library versions. (This used to happen to me every 6 months when I was running arch.) It's always possible to build python3 from source on a source-based distro but those are fringe these days.

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