Back when the GNU project was starting, among the first things they rewrote as Free Software were:
- text editor / IDE (Emacs)
- assembler, linker, and compiler
IOW, they made tools that they needed to further develop Free Software without relying on proprietary tools.
They wanted their project to be self-hosting.
Nowadays, we have more free software than ever, but we develop it using github and Discord...
@Wolf480pl this is issue with people. People tend to stich with a single solution which everybody uses. There are lots of quailty source "forges" (i.e. Gitlab, Gitea, SourceHut), but people stick with GitHub for a reason that "everybody uses GitHub".
At the moment, when everybody will use open and free forge. Especially when the #ForgeFed will be adopted.
But it is harder instant messagging systems. Every one of them has one issue that makes it harder to use.
IRC - lack of history *on server*. I don't see reason to chat if the history is not saved even for several minutes.
XMPP - it's high entrance point. Too much clients and servers supporting different featuresets.
Matrix - it's pretty young and suffers from it.
RocketChat - AFAIK it was buggy as hell, when last time I was using.
Gitter is very tight coupled with non-free software
Either way, it's clear that these days we need something better than that.
My problem is that instead of being like "IRC is no longer sufficient for our project, let's make something better", many FOSS projects are like "IRC is no longer sufficient for our project, let's use some proprietary chat app instead".
Which is the opposite of what GNU was doing back then.
Where I live, there's an expectation that "everyone is on facebook", and when you're that one guy who is not on facebook, you're basically a second-class citizen.
Please don't teach your friends to expect that everyone uses the same communication medium.
Making a system that is decentralized, secure, and lightweight (in terms of network usage) is an extremely difficult thing to accomplish; most projects or protocols only place value on two of the three as a result.
@alexcleac @jack @Wolf480pl It’s a general principle. Reliability costs performance, and security requires trust analysis which incurs overhead. I can process half a billion transactions a second in a system written in assembler that doesn’t care about networking or security. That doesn’t make it good.
But how much you want to bet that it’d still sell well? “Half a billion txns/sec on a four year old system! Buy now! Be faster than everyone else!”
@jack @alexcleac @SuperFloppies @Wolf480pl Not following the "Pandora's box" or hackability thing. Raw email bad, sure, but email lists you have to register for, digests, filters? You get archiving, threading, pretty quick turnaround (a little slow is actually good, imo). Seems like, by the time open, federated chat has finally been perfected, we'll be looking at email.
For example, sometimes you need to:
- coordinate incident response (eg. as a sysadmin)
- get comments from viewers on a livestream
- remotely debug an issue using someone else as your hands and eyes
- find someone on a train station
In those cases, high latency would be a big problem
@jack @alexcleac @SuperFloppies @Wolf480pl Well, real federation will be open to different implementations, and implementations always differ, so consistency will always be a challenge, but, given that, certain standards should be expected (I'm thinking of encryption and proper setting In-Reply-To headers).
Gmail's filtering/tagging is really decent, if you drill down. You can put multiple tags on a msg, including your own bright red "IMPORTANTE" tag, if you want.
Seems like a filter by...
@jack @alexcleac @SuperFloppies @Wolf480pl ...ancestor Message-ID shouldn't be that hard to implement, so you could/should be able to easily suppress one branch of a discussion that's gone bad, kind of like in Usenet (which is pretty email-ish, come to think of it).
A while back, everybody was all "SpamAssassin!" and "Bayesian filters!", but I'm not sure why that seems to have died away. Either it works and is no longer remarkable, or there's something wrong, or I haven't been paying attn or...
@Tarheel @jack @alexcleac @SuperFloppies
It turned into "the email provider runs all those statistical filters for you, you don't even need to be aware of it". Except when sometimes it classifies as spam something you actually wanted... "oh well, guess email is unreliable".
Also, the new term for "statistics" is "Machine Learning".
@jack @alexcleac @SuperFloppies @Wolf480pl Well, I was referring to one corner of a convo that's gone bad, so you could clip just that subthread where everybody's responding to that one person who said "but what about [globally-significant-and-not-really-relevant-right-now topic]?".
We use Teams at work and it's garbage; I hate it. No (decent) filter or search. I've heard Slack can be a real attention hog and causes FOMO and so forth. (But I have no experience and so can't really speak to it.)
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