@alexcleac so Purism isn't the only one? Cool!

Looks like they're very security-focused, to the point that their phone's USB socket is power-only. Cool!

I wonder what their price tag is gonna be though...

@Wolf480pl mee too though. Also I hope it will be cheaper than librem 5, because erm... It is really too expencive for a phone, which usability will be limited for some time

@alexcleac
>manufactured in Finland
>top quality components
>primary audience: businesses with high security requirements

I doubt it'll be cheaper than librem 5, but that'd be a nice surprise.

@Wolf480pl probably you are right 🙁 It is just everybody think that business segment is the only great for such a project. I think it is a better way to do such things on mid-range devices. Maybe I am wrong, but it just feels more right...

@alexcleac
I think there are a few problems here:
- if you manufacture in a cheap-labor place like China, there's increased risk that someone will implant a hardware backdoor
- a niche product means low scale, so economies of scale work against you, increasing the costs
- if you want FOSS-friendly chips, you have to pick i.MX and the like. Not sure how the price of i.MX6 compares to Tegras and Snapdragons, but I'm pretty sure it's not as cheap as an Allwinner.

@alexcleac
because of these reasons, FOSS-friendly owner-controllable mobile devices will be more expensive than mainstream phones.

OTOH, catering to businesses may increase scale, compared to only targeting FOSS enthusiasts... so that has a potential to increase the scale, lower the costs, and provide a more stable stream of income for the manufacturer.

So dunno... maybe it will be cheaper than Librem 5...
And I think it has a better chance of surviving than Librem.

@Wolf480pl why does it have better change of surviving? Just being curious

@alexcleac well, nevermind, Librem 5 is also advertised as something a business may need.
And both have a metal case.
So same chance of survival, for both definitions of survuval.

@Wolf480pl @alexcleac From my experience most products like this will utterly fail in the business market.

Because most regular business priority #1 when choosing phones, is if they're able to lock down the settings and remove control from the user. So they can enforce their policies. This probably wouldn't pass well on any phone also targeted to privacy enthusiasts
@Wolf480pl @alexcleac In other words MDM.

Common MDM Options and User Freedom tend to be mutually exclusive.

@quad @alexcleac
How about:
you can lock it down, but you can't prevent factory reset, and factory reset deletes all keys, so the user loses access to all company data, company servers, etc. after factory reset?

@Wolf480pl @alexcleac That's nearly nothing of company options.

Common MDM options include:
- Enforcing a PIN change every x months
- Enforcing installation of certain apps
- Disabling camera at certain locations
- Location tracking (a la find my phone)
- Remote wipes
- Automatic enforcement of policies (i.e our phones forcibly nuke company data if their PIN expires and they refuse to change it)

@quad @alexcleac and you could do this, and it can only be disabled with factory reset...
I don't see a problem here?

@Wolf480pl @alexcleac It only causes virtual freedom. Companies pri #1 tends to be to overrule what the user wants to do.

i.e work contracts at my place says that if you refuse to enable company management on your own phone, you're required to instead carry a company issued device while at work instead of your personal one

@quad @Wolf480pl in my opinion this is dumm thing. If your company does not respect and trust you that much, why should you work for that company?

@alexcleac @Wolf480pl Welcome to every non-tech company ever.

Tech companies can't get away with it (And tend to have management that are also privacy/freedom conscious)

But every non-tech company tends to get away with this because they know their employees are too bad at tech to do anything about it

@quad @alexcleac
And that's fine.
I'd carry the company-issued company-owned company-controlled device at work. And my-owned my-controlled device outside of work.

@Wolf480pl @alexcleac Well, that's what I do.

It still means that I don't carry any device that I have freedom over at work
@Wolf480pl @alexcleac But also that kinda defeats the point here. My point was that businesses wouldn't really buy a Librem phone or similar as long as user freedom is the phone's priority. Unless it can be overridden, on an OS-level outside the user's control. Which arguably would mean you remove the freedom aspect, and 80-90% of the phone's selling point.

@quad @alexcleac
The problem with mainstream smartphones is that you don't own them. Google owns them.
I think this is as much a problem for a infosec-requiring company, as it is for J. Random Hacker

@Wolf480pl @alexcleac Possibly for infosec companies. But the majority of companies I've seen don't care. The main thing they care about is that company will can overpower user will

@quad @alexcleac
I never meant an average company.
I meant companies which require extraordinary infosec measures. Not necessarily infosec copanies (as in: providing infosec services to others), but those which are a high-value target for cyberattacks.

@Wolf480pl @alexcleac Possibly, but those aren't that common. Relying too much on those would probably give them a lot of leeway over the project as well

@quad @alexcleac
If your job involved dealing with top-secret material, or developing software that will be sent as auto-updates to all powerplants in the whole country, I'd say it makes a lot of sense not to want any unverified devices anywhere near company's computers.

And I don't see how owner-controllable hardware would be incompatible with that threat model, considering that the company is the owner.

@Wolf480pl @alexcleac Also speak of the devil, I just got an E-mail saying that there's 4 new apps that will be pushed out to our Android phones.
@Wolf480pl @alexcleac It's not like there's much worthwhile in that screenshot. Just the name of three random humans.

I blurred it simply to be safe

@alexcleac Privacy is good. Are they are making a mystery of what OS they'll be using?

@manuelcaeiro they gonna use GNU/Linux with mobile version of plasma

@alexcleac is it really a phone if it doesn't have a cellular modem? To me, it sounds more like a very tiny tablet.

@zatnosk it seems that there is cellular connectivity, with LTE possibility

@alexcleac not in their "first evolution model" whatever that means. And while they say they're working on it, just that they even consider a phone without cellular as first class citizen, makes me wonder what the texting and calling experience will be like - that is still the most important function in a phone for me.

necunos.com/blog/phone-connect

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